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	<title>Comments on: Computer Literacy in the Workplace</title>
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	<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace</link>
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		<title>By: magua</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-1392</link>
		<dc:creator>magua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-1392</guid>
		<description>Just been browsing this site i was linked to from a regular site i view and it immediately reminded me of this thread and it amused me, a little at least.

Caller: “My email isn’t working!”

Me: “Okay, what seems to be the problem?”

Caller: “I already said, my email isn’t working!”

Me: “Okay, so is it not sending email, or is it not opening?”

Caller: “It’s not sending email. This is pathetic! I don’t have
time for this!”

Me: “I am here to help you. Does it say ‘connected’ at the lower right hand of the screen?”

Caller: “I don’t know, this isn’t my job! It’s yours, so fix it!”

Me: “I am trying to, sir, but I will need your help with fixing this issue remotely.”

Caller: “No, that’s not what I get paid to do. I am an accountant! I’m not supposed to know how to use a computer!”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just been browsing this site i was linked to from a regular site i view and it immediately reminded me of this thread and it amused me, a little at least.</p>
<p>Caller: “My email isn’t working!”</p>
<p>Me: “Okay, what seems to be the problem?”</p>
<p>Caller: “I already said, my email isn’t working!”</p>
<p>Me: “Okay, so is it not sending email, or is it not opening?”</p>
<p>Caller: “It’s not sending email. This is pathetic! I don’t have<br />
time for this!”</p>
<p>Me: “I am here to help you. Does it say ‘connected’ at the lower right hand of the screen?”</p>
<p>Caller: “I don’t know, this isn’t my job! It’s yours, so fix it!”</p>
<p>Me: “I am trying to, sir, but I will need your help with fixing this issue remotely.”</p>
<p>Caller: “No, that’s not what I get paid to do. I am an accountant! I’m not supposed to know how to use a computer!”</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Schonhaar</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schonhaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-572</guid>
		<description>That could have easily been avoided if there was a clause in the application form that stated that competency test scores were used as guides only and may not lead to the applicant ultimately being hired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That could have easily been avoided if there was a clause in the application form that stated that competency test scores were used as guides only and may not lead to the applicant ultimately being hired.</p>
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		<title>By: magua</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-569</link>
		<dc:creator>magua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-569</guid>
		<description>I found this one funny from the US again:

Johnson v. Transportation Agency, Santa Clara County, CA (1987)

    * Man scored higher than woman on job related-test
    * Woman hired
    * Man sued because he wasn&#039;t hired
    * Court ruled in favor of the woman because man didn&#039;t outscore her by much
          o implies that if roughly a tie, okay to use minority status as tie-breaker
          o not clear about how close is close enough</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this one funny from the US again:</p>
<p>Johnson v. Transportation Agency, Santa Clara County, CA (1987)</p>
<p>    * Man scored higher than woman on job related-test<br />
    * Woman hired<br />
    * Man sued because he wasn&#8217;t hired<br />
    * Court ruled in favor of the woman because man didn&#8217;t outscore her by much<br />
          o implies that if roughly a tie, okay to use minority status as tie-breaker<br />
          o not clear about how close is close enough</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Schonhaar</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-568</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schonhaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-568</guid>
		<description>You make a good point. The odd sore loser, as with any competency test, could choose to get a hot-shot lawyer and file a ridiculous lawsuit.

Surely though any test that can reveal a genuine, vocational advantage to one applicant over another can only be a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make a good point. The odd sore loser, as with any competency test, could choose to get a hot-shot lawyer and file a ridiculous lawsuit.</p>
<p>Surely though any test that can reveal a genuine, vocational advantage to one applicant over another can only be a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: magua</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-567</link>
		<dc:creator>magua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-567</guid>
		<description>@Dan - Pretty much. I don&#039;t agree with it entirely, i do think it would need regulating if it was to be done but refering to my original post, these things can get overly complicated very quickly! As in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan &#8211; Pretty much. I don&#8217;t agree with it entirely, i do think it would need regulating if it was to be done but refering to my original post, these things can get overly complicated very quickly! As in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Mahon</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Mahon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-566</guid>
		<description>In college, people figured out that I was very computer literate and would always ask me to format their computers, get rid of viruses, spyware, and all that fun stuff.  So many people didn&#039;t even know what folder they downloaded stuff to, how to remove programs, how to troubleshoot.

On the other hand, I love how there are seniors computer classes.  It&#039;s never too late to learn.  I think literacy testing is a great idea, especially for receptionist / secretarial jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In college, people figured out that I was very computer literate and would always ask me to format their computers, get rid of viruses, spyware, and all that fun stuff.  So many people didn&#8217;t even know what folder they downloaded stuff to, how to remove programs, how to troubleshoot.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I love how there are seniors computer classes.  It&#8217;s never too late to learn.  I think literacy testing is a great idea, especially for receptionist / secretarial jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Schonhaar</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schonhaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-565</guid>
		<description>@Stu - You just made my brain melt.

@Magua - So rejecting an applicant for a job because they don&#039;t have experience using a particular tool/piece of software/protocol when another applicant &lt;em&gt;does&lt;/em&gt; have that experience is is okay, but testing for these differences is illegal? 

I gotta tell you, these people have some serious balls filing lawsuits like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stu &#8211; You just made my brain melt.</p>
<p>@Magua &#8211; So rejecting an applicant for a job because they don&#8217;t have experience using a particular tool/piece of software/protocol when another applicant <em>does</em> have that experience is is okay, but testing for these differences is illegal? </p>
<p>I gotta tell you, these people have some serious balls filing lawsuits like that.</p>
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		<title>By: magua</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-564</link>
		<dc:creator>magua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-564</guid>
		<description>I read this one the other day, which is why after talking with Dan i was sceptical of it being done professionally.

Connecticut v. Teal (1982) - Basically it was a case where there was &#039;adverse&#039; effect on the tests on a multi screening process. There was no such screening later.

So in real terms what it meant was that 100 candidates applied, 50 got through, the 50 that didn&#039;t were impacted unfairly by the selection tests, and then afterwards the remaining 50 whom got through were then deemed as not required any further adverse tests. 
Sounds fair to me, in many ways, but it was deemed illegal not to have the same structure and allowance per each stage of the process. Unfortunately, in the day of sueing everyone who breathes, this is easily won if you can prove it discriminates even slightly about your ability.
Some of the evidence to suggest it was unfair in that trial was that some of the candidates had not had training in the &quot;use of certain experience&quot;.. i take that to mean in lawyer terms the equipment used also. So any &#039;test&#039; of their skills is unjust and automatically discounted their relevent skills because of smaller details.

I&#039;ll dig some more out on it too. Thanks Dan for getting me thinking about all this the other day :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this one the other day, which is why after talking with Dan i was sceptical of it being done professionally.</p>
<p>Connecticut v. Teal (1982) &#8211; Basically it was a case where there was &#8216;adverse&#8217; effect on the tests on a multi screening process. There was no such screening later.</p>
<p>So in real terms what it meant was that 100 candidates applied, 50 got through, the 50 that didn&#8217;t were impacted unfairly by the selection tests, and then afterwards the remaining 50 whom got through were then deemed as not required any further adverse tests.<br />
Sounds fair to me, in many ways, but it was deemed illegal not to have the same structure and allowance per each stage of the process. Unfortunately, in the day of sueing everyone who breathes, this is easily won if you can prove it discriminates even slightly about your ability.<br />
Some of the evidence to suggest it was unfair in that trial was that some of the candidates had not had training in the &#8220;use of certain experience&#8221;.. i take that to mean in lawyer terms the equipment used also. So any &#8216;test&#8217; of their skills is unjust and automatically discounted their relevent skills because of smaller details.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll dig some more out on it too. Thanks Dan for getting me thinking about all this the other day <img src='http://minute44.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-563</guid>
		<description>When I lived in California I applied for a job at a company now owned by Microsoft called Tellme. They deal with voice technologies for cell phones. Pretty interesting stuff actually.

Before I got an interview in person I was given an assignment to code and demonstrate to them. Once I&#039;d done this I had an interview over the phone, followed by another over AOL Instant Messenger (very unusual) that involved typing out answers to various programming questions posed to me.

Once I&#039;d passed those I was called in for two interviews at the office in Mountain View (down the road from Google). In the first one I was asked how I would solve a programming problem. In the second interview I was asked to solve the same programming problem. I made the mistake of mentioning that I&#039;d already done it and so I was asked a much more theoretical question (I&#039;ll paste it below).

I passed all of these tests and still ended up not getting the job because of a US Visa issue, but the tests were an extremely important part of the interview process. Without passing these there would be very little in hiring a person. I can only see good things coming out of testing people before hiring them. It should be standard for everyone. Definitely not on the level I&#039;ve detailed of my own experience, but certainly there should be _something_ done to check this person can send an email.


-- Question I was asked at Tellme --
Assume that two identical robots land from two different flights with the help of parachutes (at different points) on an infinite line.

Each robot leaves its parachute on landing and goes in search of the other robot. The problem is to write one program which will be executed by _both_ the robots that makes it possible for the robots to meet. You don&#039;t know which way the other robot was dropped on the line, and they both move at the same speed.

You have the following instructions at your disposal to write the program:
1) Step L – makes the robot take one step towards left
2) Step R – makes the robot take one step towards right
3) goto label – jump to a label or subroutine containing instructions
4) if parachute – instruction, where &#124;parachute&#124; is a boolean which will be true when a robot senses a parachute. It will be true as long as the robot is near it. The moment it takes a step towards left or right after sensing it, then P will become false.

Can you write a program that makes the robots meet.
----</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I lived in California I applied for a job at a company now owned by Microsoft called Tellme. They deal with voice technologies for cell phones. Pretty interesting stuff actually.</p>
<p>Before I got an interview in person I was given an assignment to code and demonstrate to them. Once I&#8217;d done this I had an interview over the phone, followed by another over AOL Instant Messenger (very unusual) that involved typing out answers to various programming questions posed to me.</p>
<p>Once I&#8217;d passed those I was called in for two interviews at the office in Mountain View (down the road from Google). In the first one I was asked how I would solve a programming problem. In the second interview I was asked to solve the same programming problem. I made the mistake of mentioning that I&#8217;d already done it and so I was asked a much more theoretical question (I&#8217;ll paste it below).</p>
<p>I passed all of these tests and still ended up not getting the job because of a US Visa issue, but the tests were an extremely important part of the interview process. Without passing these there would be very little in hiring a person. I can only see good things coming out of testing people before hiring them. It should be standard for everyone. Definitely not on the level I&#8217;ve detailed of my own experience, but certainly there should be _something_ done to check this person can send an email.</p>
<p>&#8211; Question I was asked at Tellme &#8211;<br />
Assume that two identical robots land from two different flights with the help of parachutes (at different points) on an infinite line.</p>
<p>Each robot leaves its parachute on landing and goes in search of the other robot. The problem is to write one program which will be executed by _both_ the robots that makes it possible for the robots to meet. You don&#8217;t know which way the other robot was dropped on the line, and they both move at the same speed.</p>
<p>You have the following instructions at your disposal to write the program:<br />
1) Step L – makes the robot take one step towards left<br />
2) Step R – makes the robot take one step towards right<br />
3) goto label – jump to a label or subroutine containing instructions<br />
4) if parachute – instruction, where |parachute| is a boolean which will be true when a robot senses a parachute. It will be true as long as the robot is near it. The moment it takes a step towards left or right after sensing it, then P will become false.</p>
<p>Can you write a program that makes the robots meet.<br />
&#8212;-</p>
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		<title>By: kat neville</title>
		<link>http://minute44.com/archives/rants/computer-literacy-in-the-workplace/comment-page-1#comment-562</link>
		<dc:creator>kat neville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minute44.com/?p=766#comment-562</guid>
		<description>I was given a personality test at my last job interview.  It was interesting, actually!  In web design, it&#039;s not uncommon to give candidates a test (I have done a layout one there at the office before, and also done some take-home tests).  If there is a requirement, as long as you let them know before hand that there&#039;s a short test on basic computers, I don&#039;t think most people would have a problem with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was given a personality test at my last job interview.  It was interesting, actually!  In web design, it&#8217;s not uncommon to give candidates a test (I have done a layout one there at the office before, and also done some take-home tests).  If there is a requirement, as long as you let them know before hand that there&#8217;s a short test on basic computers, I don&#8217;t think most people would have a problem with it.</p>
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